-10

I have noticed that the moderator has deleted the tag I created contribution.

The process was this:

  • She felt the tag is duplicate;
  • She posted a question on Meta to ask about the usefulness of the tag;
  • after less than one day (22 July), without any answers supporting to delete the tag The tag is deleted.

I want to know, how many answers in a delete proposal on meta is required to delete the tag?

I am feeling that the moderator is having wrong adaptation of the site's policies and is imposing her personal desires on new user; which she directly brings the user's problem to meta or chat and after one day, she does every thing she wants. Where is this policy written on help center, I have read the help center triple times and found no sign of such policy and process that described above.

This action is against the following instructions on help center because it was not patient, respectful, did not led by example and more important it was not fair.

When I read the help center for this moderation action,

We generally expect that moderators:
- are patient and fair
- lead by example
- show respect for their fellow community members in their actions and words are open to some light but firm moderation to keep the community on track and resolve (hopefully) uncommon disputes and exceptions

27
  • 5
    In that short time the answer by the same person calling for the deletion received 6 upvotes, which clearly indicates that there were people in agreement. And since it seemed quite clear that people agreed, it is usually a good idea to get rid of the tag before too many questions are tagged with it. – Tobias Kildetoft Jul 22 '14 at 11:48
  • @TobiasKildetoft I have no complaint about why the tag is removed. I am arguing that such rapid actions is never indicated in the help center "as the only reference to site policies"; even, there is no answer supporting the idea of deleting the tag. It is clear that personal preferences are assumed to be the site policy which are completely against the written introductions in Help Center. – enthu Jul 22 '14 at 12:54
  • @Parsa: You have said below that you understand why the tag was deleted—because it was a duplicate. If that's the case, then how are "personal preferences" involved? – aeismail Jul 22 '14 at 12:56
  • @aeismail Because I don't find any written instruction to the moderators to quickly do their preferences or whatever they want. It is written in help center that moderators are expected to be patient (as cited above). Do you assume such rapid action a patient one?! I don't think so. – enthu Jul 22 '14 at 13:01
  • 1
    "Patient" does not mean "wait for the community to make up its mind." "Patient" here means something closer to "help users work within the guidelines, even if they keep running afoul of the guidelines." That does not mean, though, that we just leave what we perceive to be in error to stand in the meantime. – aeismail Jul 22 '14 at 16:23
  • If you do not "wait for the community to make up its mind.", bringing what you want to do to the meta to see what community thinks about is useless. – enthu Jul 22 '14 at 16:27
  • 3
    @Parsa historically anything on meta with more than 5 up votes represents a pretty clear consensus. There are not many things that have more than 10 up votes. Waiting longer doesn't seem to provide benefit and if a mod misjudges the community desire, the community can reverse the decision. – StrongBad Jul 22 '14 at 21:01
  • @StrongBad If we refer to help center of site, there is no regulation on deleting tags. There is no defined procedure like "bring it to meta and delete it immediately". – enthu Jul 22 '14 at 21:05
  • 2
    @Parsa: There's a clear strategy for expressing disapproval with an action—you post a question on meta about it, which you've done. You've also seen already that the votes are pretty strongly not in your favor. A moderator not handling things the way you feel they should be done is not a violation of your rights or privileges. – aeismail Jul 22 '14 at 21:29
  • I am feeling that the moderation action towards me is not in the way described in help center: Who are the site moderators, and what is their role here? – enthu Jul 22 '14 at 21:37
  • In your view, what should someone do if they think there is something wrong with something you've done on this site? – ff524 Jul 22 '14 at 22:26
  • 2
    Deleting a tag is not a moderation privilege. A tag is deleted automatically when there are no questions with the tag on them, which any 2k user can do by retagging the questions (which is exactly what I did). So actually, everything that happened here involved me acting as a normal user, not a moderator. – ff524 Jul 22 '14 at 22:42
  • 1
    Your question seems to be: why did I address problems with this tag instead of other, old tags? The answer is, because your edits bumped the questions with those tags to the top of the list, and so I noticed them. I'm not under any obligation to go hunting for old things to fix on this site; I fix problems that come to my attention, and this came to my attention. – ff524 Jul 23 '14 at 6:58
  • 1
    I'm not sure how bumping old questions is relevant here. I saw your new tag because it was at the top of the list; I realized it was a duplicate tag; I made sure the community felt the same way; then I fixed it. None of these actions were wrong. Your accusations against other users and moderators on this site of being "uncaring" "impatient" and "disrespectful', when we have spent a lot of time trying to help you understand the site governance and policies, is really not helping. – ff524 Jul 23 '14 at 7:21
  • 3
    @Parsa Those "wrong actions" are purely so in your opinion. You are obviously very enthusiastic about participating in this site, which is great, but please try to slow down a bit and get to know how things are generally done around here before doing too many "moderation" things (such as editing things). – Tobias Kildetoft Jul 23 '14 at 18:43
5

The tag was deleted because it was a duplicate. There is nothing unique in the contribution flag that is not already covered by . I tried to find a counterexample under which such a tag would complement rather than simply "fork off," and couldn't come up with one. Moreover, I do agree that I don't see how the tag fit the questions you applied them to, which is also not a good sign.

One important point also to make: please don't treat "rollbacks" of your actions as personal attacks. The moderators are trying to make the community as useful as possible for everyone. One of the ways we do this is to keep things simple is to keep tag proliferation to a minimum. (Hence the decision to delete the tags.)

17
  • I have no complaint about "why it is deleted" but I don't find any reason to that rapid delete action; moderator should give time to discuss on the reasons. If every moderator does such rapid action, what will be the use of a "community"? There is no even a supporting answer to the suggestion in that short period of time!! – enthu Jul 22 '14 at 12:46
  • 2
    There was no additional answer—but why should there be? A sizable number of people "signed on" to the existing answer. Why should I or someone else post an additional answer that basically says "I agree with what's been said here." (Or do you mean an answer supporting your viewpoint?) – aeismail Jul 22 '14 at 12:54
  • But the point of moderators is to enable community moderation. You can't always wait for the community to develop a consensus. That's why Stack Exchange has moderators and "power users" to handle such issues. – aeismail Jul 22 '14 at 12:55
  • I posted no answer, because I opened the tag; why should I support my action by extra useless supporting answers? When somebody opens a tag, it means that they are supporting the idea of a new tag. – enthu Jul 22 '14 at 12:56
  • 2
    You could have laid out in greater clarity why you thought the tag was needed in addition to the authorship tag. – aeismail Jul 22 '14 at 12:57
  • The problem here is not the tags or suggested edits, but rapid and impatient action of the moderator. – enthu Jul 22 '14 at 13:02
  • 2
    @Parsa based on your past behaviour, if we waited longer, you may have added the tag to tens of questions, making a lot of work to clean up. In general, as a new user, you may want to ask about things before acting. A meta question proposing the tag and highlighting some example questions to apply the tag to would have been very useful and avoided this issue. – StrongBad Jul 22 '14 at 21:09
  • @StrongBad Based on "you may have done something" you can not judge me. I am not an annoying or interrupting person. Moreover, as a moderator, you should be patient and show respect by your action and I don't think this comment of you shows respect in action to me. – enthu Jul 22 '14 at 21:15
  • 3
    @Parsa: You did "do something"—you applied the tag inappropriately to two of the three questions you did apply it to. That's enough. – aeismail Jul 22 '14 at 21:25
  • @aeismail in which part of the help center is it written that two or three irrelevant application of tags should result tag delete? Also, there are many non-useful tags in the site that are linked to non-relevant questions, based on your comment, they also should be deleted but never deleted! Never edited! Even a new user edits them, he is banned and rejected! – enthu Jul 22 '14 at 21:49
  • 2
    It's written here: "As a general rule, you should avoid creating new tags if possible, and new users are not allowed to create new tags." The tag was clearly not needed, and ff524 was well within her rights to act. – aeismail Jul 22 '14 at 21:59
  • And if you feel tags are being improperly used, flag them. If enough of your peers agree, things can be changed. – aeismail Jul 22 '14 at 22:04
  • @aeismail New users with 300 reputation or less are not allowed to create new tags automatically by website. Why are you referring this to answer me? Was I a user with less than 300 reputation on the day I created the tag?! – enthu Jul 22 '14 at 22:13
  • 2
    Since you have the reputation, you can create tags. However, the tag was a duplicate, and therefore unnecessary. ff524 was therefore free to delete the tag without notification or warning. You are free to make changes subject to what your reputation allows, but the mods and power users can "veto" changes they feel are not constructive. Those are the rules of how Stack Exchange sites work. If you don't like them, there's not much we can do about it—but you are no more entitled to exemptions from the rules than anyone else. – aeismail Jul 23 '14 at 4:18
  • 3
    Your actions were wrong here, not hers. No amount of arguing on your part will change that fact. Her actions are consistent with the policies, yours were not, as I have shown you. If you are unwilling to see that, I cannot help you any further. – aeismail Jul 23 '14 at 8:13
5

In this community, it's not about waiting a specific length of time, but about waiting until we can see what the community wants. Once it is clear that there is community agreement on something - whether closing a question, deleting a tag, or something else - we act.

If there is a lot of disagreement on something - for example, a lot of back-and-forth between many users in the comments on whether to migrate a question - it's usually a good idea wait a bit before taking action. If there is not much disagreement - for example, if something has many votes in one direction and only a couple in the other direction - it's clear what the community wants, so we can take action more quickly. There is nothing to gain from waiting in that case.

In this case, the answer suggesting the tag is not useful or necessary had 7 upvotes and one downvote. There were no answers suggesting that the tag is useful or necessary. It seems like the majority of the community agrees that the tag is unnecessary, and there wasn't any ongoing debate on the issue, so I took action to delete it.

Note that tag deletion - like virtually all action on this site - can be undone. So if it turns out after a few days that the majority actually wants this new tag, we can reinstate it.

12
  • I can not see this policy in the "help center" but I can see there an instruction for the moderators to be patient and to respect the user's actions not only the way they talk to them, but also by their actions. – enthu Jul 22 '14 at 13:37
  • Moreover, why you should always be the one who is proposing deleting of my actions? If the other users of the community feel like my question needs any rapid action, they will propose it on meta or tag it. As an instance, how many users have proposed an edit on my questions in meta? I mean, how many of them brought such discussions about my posts on site to meta?! I can not understand why you always want to conflict me and show you are the powerful moderator who has the right to stop me?! – enthu Jul 22 '14 at 13:39
  • 1
    @Parsa When you comment on a new user's question that you think it needs improvement, or flag it for closure, are you trying to show that you are powerful and can stop them? Or just trying to improve the site? All I'm trying to do is help this site run according to what the majority of the community wants (as expressed through the community's flags, votes, and meta participation). I'm sorry if you can't see that. – ff524 Jul 22 '14 at 13:46
  • Flagging or commenting is something different from rapid actions, making problem bold, bringing the problem to meta, etc. There are many many other tags on tag list which need more rapid action, why don't you take a look at them?! – enthu Jul 22 '14 at 13:53
  • And the situation becomes worse when a new user like me does review on the useless tags and you, again, stop me; constantly reject and ban me from doing further reviews for at least seven days (as a consequent of your impatient and not light and respectful moderation as described in help center of site). What happened next? I have no courage in reviewing tags anymore! This is the effect of your model of moderation and your preferred method of moderation under the shell of the policy of the site! – enthu Jul 22 '14 at 13:53
  • @Parsa: The SE review system is automated—we don't choose what comes up for review; that's determined by the users interacting with the system. When you change a tag, we get a notice; when a user with insufficient reputation edits a post, we get a notice; when someone casts a close vote, or recommends a question to be placed on hold, we are notified. The banning likewise is not imposed by the moderators, but is a consequence of having the changes rejected. (cont.) – aeismail Jul 22 '14 at 16:26
  • 1
    @Parsa: As I mentioned in my reply above—we are not attacking you. You are clearly a motivated member of the community, and your participation is welcome. However, moderators need to act in the best interests of the site, not of individual users. – aeismail Jul 22 '14 at 16:28
  • @aeismail I'm in favor of reviewing the user's activities as you described above; but rejecting the activities based on your preference of the policies is something non-constructive. As I mentioned here, the moderator doesn't care about the site's problematic tags, when something is proposed she bans it. I do not assume it to be a caring moderation act. Also I assume it to be using moderation tools to stop an enthusiast new user. If she is caring about the contents of the site, she'd better allow caring user to do his edit activity and put time and effort to review the edits, not just reject. – enthu Jul 22 '14 at 16:35
  • 2
    @Parsa: What is the more likely scenario: (a) Moderators have vendettas against an "enthusiast[ic] new user," or (b) moderators make decisions in the best interest of the site, and reject changes they feel are inappropriate, incorrect, or otherwise not helpful? – aeismail Jul 22 '14 at 17:06
  • @aeismail Basically the second one but based on my experience, I am in doubt. – enthu Jul 22 '14 at 17:08
  • 2
    @parsa a number of your actions have resulted in regular users raising flags to alert moderators to possible issues. Most of the regular users chose to flag issues rather than bring them up in chat or meta. Many of these flags are for issues that are borderline and it is not clear if a moderator should take unilateral action. Based on when the flags are being raised, this results in ff524 handling most of these issues and therefore needing to raise the issues on meta to try understand the communities view. – StrongBad Jul 22 '14 at 20:57
  • @StrongBad I don't agree with you in the case of that tag which she brought to meta. It was her personal bad feeling about that tag not a moderation action. – enthu Jul 22 '14 at 21:00

You must log in to answer this question.

Not the answer you're looking for? Browse other questions tagged .